Legion 5 15ACH6H AMD + NVIDIA Freezes

Caesum · 9 Temmuz 2022

Hi and sorry for writing in English on your board but I saw you guys created a whole thread about Intel+NVIDIA Freeze due to Windows 10 Creators Fall Update and NVIDIA Optimus.

I think I am having the same issue as you describe, but with my Lenovo Legion 5 15ACH6H. Basically when I am clicking on some Windows 11 UI interface (RMB on desktop, Wi-Fi/speaker/battery icon, locking account, shutdown button) I get a 0.5 second freeze. This only happens after I install AMD GPU drivers. The issue also disappears if I turn off Hybrid Mode (it turns off iGPU).

The issue looks like this:

Because of that I want to ask you guys if the Intel+NVIDIA issue was really fixed, or was it fixed partially like the thread suggests, or did it return recently for Intel? I wrote a New thread for this issue because the Intel One was closed some time ago.

AMD + NVIDIA Laptop Freeze Problem - Microsoft Q&A

I am writing a new thread to mention an issue about AMD + NVIDIA laptops using NVIDIA Optimus technology. This seems to be a very old (+8yo!) bug reported first for INTEL + NVIDIA configuration, but it was partially fixed for INTEL by cooperative work…

answers.microsoft.com

I would really appreciate any information (in Turkish or English) if the issue is present on other laptops with AMD+NVIDIA GPUs and/or if the issue was fixed on Intel One S.

Caesum · 16 Temmuz 2022

Writing to give you an update on the subject. So I might have mentioned that Lenovo technician came to replace my motherboard on thursday, but it didn't help. I wrote that to them and they now will probably want laptop to go to the service again. I told them it's probably NVIDIA Optimus that's why nothing helps, but they insisted anyway.

So in the meantime I've been messing around to get consistent repro steps of how to get stutters on both NVIDIA and AMD GPU. I have noticed several very interesting things about the stutters:

1. There is one type of stutters every 10-20 seconds when you unplug laptop from power, but there are two ways to trigger them.
1.1. One way to trigger them is to just run a stock Windows application on NVIDIA GPU. The stutters will appear immediately and will affect every application running on iGPU. Interesting enough, applications running on dGPU won't be affected.
1.2. Another way to trigger them is to plug in external monitor. This forces all Windows apps to be run through NVIDIA GPU for some reason, so the moment you unplug the monitor, stutters will appear on iGPU.
1.3. Plugging in external monitor will remove stuttering. Turning off applications running on NVIDIA GPU will also turn them off.

2. The second way is to make stutters appear on iGPU without the use of NVIDIA. I think this only happens when you use your laptop with external display, then unplug it, wait for all the apps on dGPU to turn off, and then hibernate it. After waking laptop up iGPU will stutter even though no app is running on dGPU.
2.1. In this case turning ON an application that runs on dGPU will make the stutters disappear.
2.2. On Lenovo you can also use CTRL+SHIFT+WIN+B key combination to restart GPU drivers. This will stop stuttering on iGPU, but then running apps on dGPU will cause them (so way one applies here).

Another interesting thing I have noticed: when stutters occur, overlays show that for some reason GPU PCIE Rx jumps from 0mb/s to 123 mb/s while GPU PCIE Tx jumps from 0 to 13mb/s. This disappears when you plug laptop to power or when you plug in external display.

So there are three factors affecting it:
1. Power source - unplugging causes stutters
2. Display - external display removes stutters
3. Windows - stutters are caused by stock Windows applications

It is possible that hibernation might be the factor no 4.

356463 · 16 Temmuz 2022

Hello. Finnaly I've got my Ideapad Gaming 3. It has RTX3060 and Ryzen 7 5800H. The main screen connected to iGPU. I'm using Windows 10 and there is no stutter or freezes. I think the main problem is Windows 11.

Caesum · 16 Temmuz 2022

Try setting some Windows app (eg printer/scanner app) to NVIDIA GPU, open it, unplug laptop from power and try to move around this window for about 30 seconds up to a minute. If nothing happens, it means you are safe!

I have seen this issue happening on HP Omen with Windows 10 so I don't think OS really matters. That being said some people say their rigs didn't have it initially so it's a mystery when this thing starts happening.

Taloji · 16 Temmuz 2022

It might be related that AMD systems generally suffer from fTPM stutter and Lenovo haven't released BIOS update according to that (They ''Should'' release soon). And yes i expect same small stutters regardless. (15ACH6H, also happens in 16ACH6H 5 Pro AMD)

Triggering Advanced Optimus also triggers this issue.

Article

Caesum · 16 Temmuz 2022

AMD PSP should produce stutters with audio popping or slowing down (the "Matrix" effect). You can turn it off in BIOS and those stutters should disappear.

The other kind of micro-freezes and stutters where audio is not affected are all caused by NVIDIA Optimus though and those cannot be easily avoided unfortunately.

My easiest workaround right now is to use CTRL+SHIFT+WIN+B when they appear on iGPU while dGPU is idle. When they appear only when dGPU is triggered, I just close the apps using them. It's not perfect, but it's good enough for the time being while I'm looking for a better solution.

424997 · 17 Temmuz 2022

356463 dedi:
Hello. Finnaly I've got my Ideapad Gaming 3. It has RTX3060 and Ryzen 7 5800H. The main screen connected to iGPU. I'm using Windows 10 and there is no stutter or freezes. I think the main problem is Windows 11.

Hi, I tried both versions of Windows. There are problems with both versions of Windows, I guess it's a bit of luck.

Caesum dedi:
Try setting some Windows app (eg printer/scanner app) to NVIDIA GPU, open it, unplug laptop from power and try to move around this window for about 30 seconds up to a minute. If nothing happens, it means you are safe!

I have seen this issue happening on HP Omen with Windows 10 so I don't think OS really matters. That being said some people say their rigs didn't have it initially so it's a mystery when this thing starts happening.

After formatting, there is no problem until I install the graphic drivers. Installing two graphic drivers starts the problem.

Caesum dedi:
AMD PSP should produce stutters with audio popping or slowing down (the "Matrix" effect). You can turn it off in BIOS and those stutters should disappear.

The other kind of micro-freezes and stutters where audio is not affected are all caused by NVIDIA Optimus though and those cannot be easily avoided unfortunately.

My easiest workaround right now is to use CTRL+SHIFT+WIN+B when they appear on iGPU while dGPU is idle. When they appear only when dGPU is triggered, I just close the apps using them. It's not perfect, but it's good enough for the time being while I'm looking for a better solution.

It is a method. if you want try TrayPwrD3 it takes all the stuttering but it is not the best solution as it consumes high battery.I sent a notification to Windows and said that the problem was caused by the AMD+NVIDIA combo. I also stated that I was using an AMD graphics card and I mentioned that the same problem was in some Intelli devices in the past. They blamed Intel and I can't access my notification now.It is very difficult to access a technological device in a country like Turkey and it is really annoying to suffer from such problems.

Caesum · 17 Temmuz 2022

I love it how they just straight blamed it on INTEL even though there is not a single part of hardware or software installed on your rig LOL. I think this sort of slander could be used by Intel to even throw a court case against them.

424997 · 17 Temmuz 2022

The funny thing is that I mentioned the name of the device and I think that 15arh05 series does not even have an intel model.

I couldn't access my feedback, they said call Intel directly and closed the issue.It's funny but true.

I think I said it was a misunderstanding, but there was no response or I could not see it at all. I can't see any feedback. Simple interface after sending notification, it was very confusing. I see someone else's feedback from 3 months ago. but I should have my own notification there, it's so funny it says huge MY NOTIFICATION. What should I do with someone else's report, if I'm going to take care of someone else's report, why does Microsoft exist?!

Redirecting

Could they have said that because I shared this link?
They would be much more helpful if they said we are not interested in your problem.

Grenouille · 25 Temmuz 2022

Hi dude, I have been trying to solve this stuttering problem for 2 years. I think it's because of the operating System. I have sent feedback and contacted hardware manufacturers but still not resolved. My Intel+ NVIDIA device, like in your first video High performance NVIDIA Graphics Processor is triggered by this simple gesture. Some Windows processes that do not require a 3D workload trigger the high-performance Graphics Processor. When you open the notification Center'in your first video, the first Click gets stuck. Clicking it a second time opens Very consistently without triggering. Also this function will trigger the sleeping HDD, causing it to wake up along with the dGPU and make a strange noise. The same problems exist in Windows 10 and Windows 11 operating systems. I'm tired of leaving the Epic Games Launcher running in the background to avoid these stutters and keep the NVIDIA GPU awake lol. I hope it will be resolved as soon as possible.

Recep Baltaş · 25 Temmuz 2022

Caesum dedi:
I love it how they just straight blamed it on INTEL even though there is not a single part of hardware or software installed on your rig LOL. I think this sort of slander could be used by Intel to even throw a court case against them.

And Intel did fix their part of the problem. Yet Microsoft did a half-ass job and didn't even mention about it in the changelog

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